I am a big mean mom..

Did/would you pay for your child's learners permit?

  • Yes

    Votes: 271 92.5%
  • No

    Votes: 14 4.8%
  • Other..just because

    Votes: 8 2.7%

  • Total voters
    293
I must be mean too. I feel if a child wants that kind of responsibility, the way to start is by taking charge of the process themselves...

That's what I wasn't going for. If you want to drive, realize that it's a lot of responsibility and not something that's just going to be handed to you.

We have a good transit system. It may not get you somewhere as quickly as you'd like to get there, but you'll still get there. Plus, most of her friends have cars and we'll still drive her when we can. It's not like she'll be thumbing on the side of the road to get to the mall lol
 
I have no idea how much it is. Becaue she's over 15 1/2 she doesn't have to take drivers ed. When I took it (1991) it was free but I'm sure it's changed since then LOL
Not sure if it's still part of any high-school curriculum in Manitoba but it hasn't been here in Alberta for 20 years or so. I would have LOVED for my kid to have been able to take it in school. All driver training is private and costs $$$ but we felt it was an important step in him becoming a good, safe driver. We drove with him for literally 100's of hours but he learned more from the 20 hours he spent with the professional trainer.
 
That's what I wasn't going for. If you want to drive, realize that it's a lot of responsibility and not something that's just going to be handed to you.

We have a good transit system. It may not get you somewhere as quickly as you'd like to get there, but you'll still get there. Plus, most of her friends have cars and we'll still drive her when we can. It's not like she'll be thumbing on the side of the road to get to the mall lol

It's interesting you replied to the one person who agreed with you, and not the almost unanimous six pages (not to mention 141 votes) of people who didn't.
 
It's interesting you replied to the one person who agreed with you, and not the almost unanimous six pages (not to mention 141 votes) of people who didn't.

And say what to all 141 people? Sorry we disagree but thanks for your input? Yes, that would be sincere. I am reading all the responses. Sorry you feel bad for my daughter? Nope, that one wouldn't be sincere. Find me one thread where every single post gets a reply.

Most of the people disagree with me and that's ok. I asked for opinions and I got them. I didn't leave the thread in a huff or delete my OP and change the thread title to nevermind. I always tough out my threads. I'm not going to change my mind but I do appreciate why others feel the way they do. It's what makes the world go round.
 
My kids won't be driving for several years still, but this is something DH and I have already discussed and agreed on. We will pay for the test and license, but if there are issues with attitude, behavior, or grades, they will not be allowed to take their driving tests until such issues improve. As for insurance, if it doesn't cost a lot to add each of them to ours, then we will pay the full cost. If it's a significant increase, then they will pay part. Regardless, when they graduate high school, they will have their own insurance and be fully responsible for it. We plan to pay half for a car, they will be responsible for the other half, and it will not be financed, so they will have to work to earn money before they can get a car. They will also be responsible for their own cell phone bills (their portion of a family plan) and their own gas. We will teach them to change their own oil and will pay for the oil and filter, but if they want to take it somewhere for an oil change, they will pay for that themselves.

OP, it sounds like you do pay for several expenses for your DD (like her phone bill), but not every one. While I would pay for the driving test/license instead of the phone bill, that's just what makes more sense to us. I don't see anything wrong with you not wanting to pay for everything or let her drive your car. While driving is almost a necessity in many places and it's important to know how to drive, for teenagers especially, it is a privilege, not some fundamental right that they are entitled to. I think it's important for teenagers to be responsible for some of their own expenses, and I feel that they appreciate things more when they have to work to earn them. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for how you choose to handle this situation.
 
Both of my kids got their permits when they were 15 and their licenses when they were 16. We also bought them cars at 16. Before I go on to the why we did this based on driving experience, I will say that they were (and still are) outstanding people. Both were valedictorians at a really competitive high school, both were in numerous clubs and activities, both held part-time jobs during high school (and in college), both are respectful of me and my husband and are both just terrific people. Had they not been most of those things - no license and no car. Both of those things are to be earned though behavior - which my girls did.

Now - onto my take on driving experience... The way that I paraphrase this is to say "you want your first wreck to be close to home." Which doesn't mean that mine had wrecks or that I wanted them to. What it means is that driving is both a mechanical skill and a life skill. I wanted both of my kids to go through that while they were still being supervised by their parents. You become a better driver by practicing and by practicing under the observation of a good, experienced driver. You also need practice at the life skill of going places on your own (and with friends) and how to handle things that come up during those experiences.

When my oldest got her license, she was really intimidated by going places alone. So - we started with safe, easy things. For example - her orthodontist was someone she had been seeing for years. The office was a nice distance away (some surface roads and a bit of highway), the people in the office all knew her and would be willing to help her if she was in any way needing help and, if she was feeling confident on her way home, she could easily swing by a fast food place and pick something up. Outings like this during her first year of solo driving did a lot for her. I wanted my kids to learn this set of skills while still under our roof.

I knew people who dropped their kids off at college with a car and a license that was 3 weeks old. To me, this is not the best idea. I have a few other friends with kids who didn't get licenses until they were adults and got full time jobs. First day of work, first day commuting, 5th day of solo driving - to me this is not the best a parent can do.

Are driving teens expensive? Absolutely. I knew that when I decided to have kids. It's all part of parenting.
 
"Most of her friends have cars" is the part that would concern me.

I KNOW my kids are good drivers. I know it because we've spent hours and hours together with them behind the wheel.

I have no idea what kind of drivers their friends are.

Sure, I know that inexperience is inexperience. But I'm more comfortable with the idea of my kids driving than their getting a ride with others. I know my kids. I know their skills behind the wheel. And I know that they would have no problem blaming me if they were pressured to do something they didn't want to-- like having a drink and then getting behind the wheel.

And, even as a teacher, I would never choose to tie grades into driving-- or almost any other privilege. Work ethic, yes. Responsibility, yes. General attitude, yes. But grades? Nope. I've taught too many kids over the years who poured their hearts and souls into their schoolwork, but who simply weren't gifted as students. (Yeah, I know. They would never make it on the Disboards. I'm stunned that I haven't been kicked off yet, with 2 kids who routinely carry only a B average.)

Grades and responsibility don't always go hand in hand; I've taught any number of A students that I wouldn't trust behind the wheel of a car!
 
I pay for the learner's permit, if needed, just like I pay for ballet lessons and orthodontia. I know that some parents consider those to be optional expenses, too, but I don't. I consider it part and parcel of what you sign up for when you have a child--that you are going to provide them with the tools and skills needed to survive in the adult world.

I think every parent has their own view of the "want-need" scale. I grew up poor, so some of the things I was required to pay for as a teen were my HS books (and, senior year, tuition--catholic school), clothes, school lunches and transportation, and any extras like class ring, yearbook, etc. And, of course, college was all on me. I got through it, but I still have money anxiety from the stress of needing to pay for $400 worth of textbooks at 13, etc. So, I wouldn't do this to my kids.

As an aside, NH has no fee for a driving permit--you just need to put a copy of your birth certificate in the car, so you can produce it if stopped.
 
My 16yo is in Driver's Ed. We paid $495 for the class. He has practiced driving with us but I think Driver's Ed is important. He can then get his full license at 17 instead of 18.
 
Sorry if it's been covered, but haven't had time to read the entire thing. Your choice on paying for the permit or not. Personally, I would, but I'd understand if you didn't.

My comment is on the insurance part. In your OP, you said that DD doesn't have to pay for insurance, because your insurance covers the car and not the driver. Are you 110% sure on that? I'd very strongly encourage you to check your policy and/or check with your agent. Are you in Canada? I don't have a ton of experience with Canadian policies, but in the U.S. that would absolutely not be true. You MUST list a driver in the household, insurance does not cover just the car. In my limited dealings with Canadian policies, it's the same way, but I could be wrong (this is what I do for a living). Please, for your own sake, double check. I can't imagine an insurance that wouldn't care who's driving and only cover the car.
 
Sorry if it's been covered, but haven't had time to read the entire thing. Your choice on paying for the permit or not. Personally, I would, but I'd understand if you didn't.

My comment is on the insurance part. In your OP, you said that DD doesn't have to pay for insurance, because your insurance covers the car and not the driver. Are you 110% sure on that? I'd very strongly encourage you to check your policy and/or check with your agent. Are you in Canada? I don't have a ton of experience with Canadian policies, but in the U.S. that would absolutely not be true. You MUST list a driver in the household, insurance does not cover just the car. In my limited dealings with Canadian policies, it's the same way, but I could be wrong (this is what I do for a living). Please, for your own sake, double check. I can't imagine an insurance that wouldn't care who's driving and only cover the car.

My insurance company caught up with me a month after my daughter was licensed and I had to add her on the policy if she was driving a car that I owned and insured. My insurance doubled just adding her on as a driver, not even having a car insured under her name, that would be WAY more.
 
Sorry if it's been covered, but haven't had time to read the entire thing. Your choice on paying for the permit or not. Personally, I would, but I'd understand if you didn't.

My comment is on the insurance part. In your OP, you said that DD doesn't have to pay for insurance, because your insurance covers the car and not the driver. Are you 110% sure on that? I'd very strongly encourage you to check your policy and/or check with your agent. Are you in Canada? I don't have a ton of experience with Canadian policies, but in the U.S. that would absolutely not be true. You MUST list a driver in the household, insurance does not cover just the car. In my limited dealings with Canadian policies, it's the same way, but I could be wrong (this is what I do for a living). Please, for your own sake, double check. I can't imagine an insurance that wouldn't care who's driving and only cover the car.

No in Canada we still have to pay a bit more but not as much as if they have their own car. They would go under a secondary driver not a primary one. When they are learning it cost nothing extra on the insurance only if they get their license and driving the car all the time alone.
 
I have no idea how much it is. Becaue she's over 15 1/2 she doesn't have to take drivers ed. When I took it (1991) it was free but I'm sure it's changed since then LOL

Really? Interesting. Didn't realize there was an age limit to driver's ed.
 
No in Canada we still have to pay a bit more but not as much as if they have their own car. They would go under a secondary driver not a primary one. When they are learning it cost nothing extra on the insurance only if they get their license and driving the car all the time alone.

We don't in Manitoba. Probably has to do with our government run Manitoba Public Insurance. The car is insured not the driver. No such thing as primary/secondary driver. Now if you go to register a vehicle and you have demerits on your license it will cost you a penalty.
 
Sorry if it's been covered, but haven't had time to read the entire thing. Your choice on paying for the permit or not. Personally, I would, but I'd understand if you didn't.

My comment is on the insurance part. In your OP, you said that DD doesn't have to pay for insurance, because your insurance covers the car and not the driver. Are you 110% sure on that? I'd very strongly encourage you to check your policy and/or check with your agent. Are you in Canada? I don't have a ton of experience with Canadian policies, but in the U.S. that would absolutely not be true. You MUST list a driver in the household, insurance does not cover just the car. In my limited dealings with Canadian policies, it's the same way, but I could be wrong (this is what I do for a living). Please, for your own sake, double check. I can't imagine an insurance that wouldn't care who's driving and only cover the car.
Several Canadian provinces have no free-market insurance; there is one provider and it's the government. It's a 100% no-fault system so it is basically insuring the vehicle at whatever rate they charge.

I don't live in one of those provinces and I imagine our insurance carriers rate very similarly to those in the States. We have 3 vehicles and 3 licsensed drivers in our household. Each of us has to be the declared the "primary" on one of them and the rates are set accordingly. Our 20 y.o., unmarried DS with 2 years driving experience is the "primary" on our 10 year-old beater that has a blue-book value of less than $3,000. Even with no collision premiums are about $1,800/year. :sad2:
 
Several Canadian provinces have no free-market insurance; there is one provider and it's the government. It's a 100% no-fault system so it is basically insuring the vehicle at whatever rate they charge.

I don't live in one of those provinces and I imagine our insurance carriers rate very similarly to those in the States. We have 3 vehicles and 3 licsensed drivers in our household. Each of us has to be the declared the "primary" on one of them and the rates are set accordingly. Our 20 y.o., unmarried DS with 2 years driving experience is the "primary" on our 10 year-old beater that has a blue-book value of less than $3,000. Even with no collision premiums are about $1,800/year. :sad2:
What happens if a family has more drivers than cars? Can you have more than one "primary" on a car?

The $1800 rate on the 10 year old car doesn't seem that unusual to me.
 
I wouldn't say you were mean for making them pay as each family makes decisions on what is best for them. We pay for what we want to pay and that is no one else's business. That being said, we paid for all expenses of driving starting with their learner's permit until they were out of college. Once out of college we cover insurance on the car we gave them until they are 26 and they are responsible for everything else related to the car. It works for us, but it most certainly does not work for everyone.
 
My circumstances required that my DD be a competent driver at age 17. She would still only be 17 when she would be heading off to college - a 6 hour car ride away. Now I could have dropped her off at school in a uhaul and driven home, but then she would be more likely to be getting into cars with other young inexperienced drivers behind the wheels. That was the less optimal choice. I could have held onto her for another year before college, but what does that say about my confidence in her intelligence and maturity to handle life?

As it was, we embraced the whole car learning thing "full throttle". My brother is a car painter and mechanic. He had a '96 convertible mustang fall into his lap for a song when she was only 11, so he worked on it for those five years installing a roll bar (also prevents extra passengers in back!), giving it a custom paint job so EVERYONE would see her coming and avoid hitting her and got it running like new. In those five years my daughter saved and paid us for the car.

When she turned sixteen and a half she got her learners, passed with flying colors, and had lessons from me, my brother and her dad. Additionally, a course is required in our state and she signed up for that course. She was so disappointed at the lackluster teacher and kids buried in their phones during the class (that we paid $400 for) that she wrote the owner of the driver school a complaint letter. He was there the next day watching from the back of the class, a very nervous teacher that day...

After that first program AND 60 hours driving behind the wheel with us (required, BTW)... we signed her up for one more course. This one is free unless you are able to donate the $100 spot holding fee. THIS is my highest recommendation: B.R.A.K.E.S. a program designed by a race car driver who developed the program after losing his 15 and 17 year old sons in an auto accident. This course taught her the most valuable lesson: that SHE controls the car, not the other way around. They take you through a one day closed course program where you hydroplane, use the ABS brakes to the hilt, swerve on short notice and drive distracted among a dummy course in a safe area - usually a raceway closed for the program. It's priceless and the biggest reason I think my daughter has been 100% accident free for three years so far (knock on wood).

My suggestion for you is to ask yourself why you don't want her driving and whether it's a reason in her best interest or in yours. If you think she's not mature enough because she's buried in her phone and you know she'll text and drive, or maybe she doesn't sleep well and you don't think she'll be alert enough... those are valid reasons. I have a cousin who is 29 now and has essentially gone through a car a year due to prescription drug abuse and alcohol since she was 16... and her mother still buys her a car every year or so (don't get me started).

However, if it's because you're not ready let her go - I know there are parents out there, moms especially, who want their kids rooted at home ... forever. Or as long as they can keep them around because the only identity they have is Mom. That's not a good reason to keep her from testing her wings. As long as you're honest about why, explain it to her, determine who pays for what (my DD pays half her insurance unless she's in an accident then she gets to pay the whole thing) and set up a reasonable timetable for when she CAN get that permit, get those lessons and get her license you two should be reasonably on the same page. If not, eventually she may grow to resent the obstacles you set in her way.

And for any Disney (er, excuse me, Dreamworks!) lovers who want to know what my DD's first car looked like? My brother is amazing - it's even gone viral once or twice!!! Meet Toothless.... (She's since moved on to something that can hold her college studies equipment....)

Toothless.jpg

Toothless_zpsjwjq7sd1.jpg
 
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