Tips on submitting POT's

roxymama · May 24, 2016

That's why when I first started I loved when races had pacers with the big pace signs in the corrals. Does Disney do this for the half's/marathons? A few times it made me go Hrrrmmmm to see a pace sign starting with an 8 in my corral and that was enough to make me decide to scoot back a little ways to be near a more appropriate pace for myself.
The hard part is if let's say only 30% of runners submitted less than 11min miles your could have 2-3 corrals packed with all kinds of paces. Or if you have a really competitive race with like 70% under 11min miles you could end up with a better balance of paces in each corral. That's why I like me some pacer signs to give me confidence I'm in the right spot or to "scare me back", haha

opusone · May 24, 2016

roxymama said:
ALSO when I ran my WDW race I was purposely running a slower pace to "take it all in" and because it was Jan and my fitness was nowhere near Sept levels. All races no mater where they are located...people are in corrals based on something they did at one point (their best performance), not on what they plan to do now.

I think most runners do take it easier at rD events. This was my analysis of the Star Wars Dark Side half marathon this year, and the majority of the folks did run slower than their corral time brackets (except for corrals J, K & L):

roxymama said:
So you have a mix of people corralled too slowly now for their better fitness and people corralled too fast for their current fitness or goal.

I actually think you want this. If everyone in a corral really did run at about the same pace, you wouldn't get runners to spread out as much, and each corral would be its own bottleneck. I know you did Hot Chocolate last year, and I think they do a really good job with corrals because they don't simply put the fastest runners in corral A, then next fastest in B, and so on. Instead, they seem to place a range of paces in each corral, such that the fastest runner in corral B is faster than the slowest runner in corral A. This way, the corrals spread out pretty quickly after the start. Now, in general, they do seem to limit the range, and overall the average pace in corral A will be faster than the average pace in corral B, such that you don't have a super fast runner in corral M nor do you have a super slow runner in corral D, but I have always been impressed with the Hot Chocolate corral distribution. It's the only race I know of that seems to do this well.

Barca33Runner said:
Whether it's to get to characters faster, get a few extra minutes in front of the balloon ladies, hopping forward to run with a friend instead of having them come back, to finish faster to get to the parks earlier, to try to avoid the bottlenecks (that they will now be causing), etc. rD races have quite a few incentives for runners to want to be in earlier corrals.

I always thought it would be really easy to prevent the corral hoping by simply stating that folks would be disqualified if they start before their corral's start time. Everyone's start time is in the system (in fact it's part of the runner notifications), and the bibs are chipped, so it really would be easy to automate the disqualifications. Obviously, this wouldn't fix the folks that cheat on their PoT entries, but it would definitely fix the corral jumpers.

roxymama · May 24, 2016

@opusone Cool chart! I love looking at stuff like that!

And what you said about Hot Chocolate, I did not realize BUT makes so much sense! There were 9:00 and 10:00 pacers in my corral and my husband was about three corrals back and said that 10:00 pacer was in his corral. Which made me scratch my head but now is understandable.
I bet its tricky to corral 5k & 15k people together too. Gonna guess the 5k folks are gunning it a lot faster than some of the 15k's.

I've really de-railed this discussion! Sorry guys, I just like to over-analyze things

ZellyB · May 24, 2016

My overall times at a Disney race are always MUCH slower than my POT would indicate I can go. I stop for a lot of pictures. I don't push my pace at all because I don't runDisney for time, I run it for the experience. I think I'm pretty typical of most runners there though, so even though my corral would indicate I could finish in XYZ time, most everyone else is doing the same thing I am so, it all evens out.

opusone · May 24, 2016

roxymama said:
I bet its tricky to corral 5k & 15k people together too. Gonna guess the 5k folks are gunning it a lot faster than some of the 15k's.

I think mixing the 5k and 15k folks also helps in spreading things out quickly.

ANIM8R · May 25, 2016

opusone said:
I always thought it would be really easy to prevent the corral hoping by simply stating that folks would be disqualified if they start before their corral's start time. Everyone's start time is in the system (in fact it's part of the runner notifications), and the bibs are chipped, so it really would be easy to automate the disqualifications. Obviously, this wouldn't fix the folks that cheat on their PoT entries, but it would definitely fix the corral jumpers.

Good idea!

This put a horrible, humorous vision in my mind...put a small detonation device in the timing chip. Cross the start ahead of your assigned corral....splat.

Keels · May 26, 2016

opusone said:
I always thought it would be really easy to prevent the corral hoping by simply stating that folks would be disqualified if they start before their corral's start time. Everyone's start time is in the system (in fact it's part of the runner notifications), and the bibs are chipped, so it really would be easy to automate the disqualifications. Obviously, this wouldn't fix the folks that cheat on their PoT entries, but it would definitely fix the corral jumpers.

I can completely agree with this - but there are (sometimes!) issues with registrations and people being corralled incorrectly.

I was corralled in D for Pixie Dust Challenge, but had submitted a PoT that should have put me borderline B/C (definitely B for the 10k), and that was largely because I didn't realize I had to actually SELECT the time I planned to finish the race that would correspond with my PoT. I was able to get my corral changed at Runner Relations (it was just a sticker to the front of my bib - there was no chip change or anything) and that was that.

Princess_Nikki · May 26, 2016

ANIM8R said:
Good idea!

This put a horrible, humorous vision in my mind...put a small detonation device in the timing chip. Cross the start ahead of your assigned corral....splat.

I definitely LOL'd! I do wonder how do people cheat and jump ahead corrals?? Maybe some volunteers don't notice, but for the Princess Half our corral letter was huge on our bib and the lady holding down the fort at our balloon was checking EVERYONE.

cavepig · May 26, 2016

Princess_Nikki said:
I definitely LOL'd! I do wonder how do people cheat and jump ahead corrals?? Maybe some volunteers don't notice, but for the Princess Half our corral letter was huge on our bib and the lady holding down the fort at our balloon was checking EVERYONE.

At the marathon in Jan this year I was holding on to the hand rail at the side of my corral sick as can be and not in the mood for people and this girl jumped the railing smashing into me (literally smashed my foot). I yelled, "You aren't supposed to be here" because we were F and she was O I think, people stared, but she just looked at me and scurried into the corral. Her friend followed her over too. So, that's how some jump corrals. There's just too many people for them to police the 'jumpers'. The volunteers are good checking at the gate to enter the corral as I've seen many turned away trying to enter earlier corrals.

jsmjovi · May 26, 2016

Do the races have to be chip timed to submit the POT? There's some that I would like to do, but they aren't chip timed, but the results are posted online.

cavepig · May 26, 2016

jsmjovi said:
Do the races have to be chip timed to submit the POT? There's some that I would like to do, but they aren't chip timed, but the results are posted online.

I don't think it has to be chipped. As long as there is a link to the online results you should be good.

Ariel484 · May 26, 2016

Like @cavepig said, I think you're really just looking for online results that another person can see. If I run a 10K around my town by myself and send them a link to my Garmin data, that doesn't count. It has to be an official race with linked results.

opusone · May 26, 2016

Keels said:
I was corralled in D for Pixie Dust Challenge, but had submitted a PoT that should have put me borderline B/C (definitely B for the 10k), and that was largely because I didn't realize I had to actually SELECT the time I planned to finish the race that would correspond with my PoT. I was able to get my corral changed at Runner Relations (it was just a sticker to the front of my bib - there was no chip change or anything) and that was that.

My thought is that Runner Relations should be able to change your corral in the database system as well, but maybe I don't know enough of the behind-the-scenes logistics, and this might be more complicated than I am thinking.

Keels · May 26, 2016

opusone said:
My thought is that Runner Relations should be able to change your corral in the database system as well, but maybe I don't know enough of the behind-the-scenes logistics, and this might be more complicated than I am thinking.

Yeah - the only thing they check the database for is actual things related to your registration information - like name, age, gender. My GSC chip had my husband's name, age and group on it - but clearly he wasn't the one running.

pinkxray · May 26, 2016

Quick question about using a 10k POF. What time is too long to submit? I am doing a 10k on Sunday and since I'm really not deep into training I am estimating to finish around 1hr20. Should I bother submitting it? I usually end up around 13min a mile for a half marathon but won't have another 10k or half around here before the July deadline.

Thanks

opusone · May 26, 2016

pinkxray said:
Quick question about using a 10k POF. What time is too long to submit? I am doing a 10k on Sunday and since I'm really not deep into training I am estimating to finish around 1hr20. Should I bother submitting it? I usually end up around 13min a mile for a half marathon but won't have another 10k or half around here before the July deadline.

Thanks

Yes, I would submit it. In my mind, submitting anything is better than not submitting (guaranteed last corral), plus a 1:20 10k would put you at about a 2:58 half using the McMillan calculator, which I think is worth submitting regardless.

Edit: wait, which race has a July POT deadline?

pinkxray · May 26, 2016

Oops, sorry. Deadline for wine and dine is August 2 I think but there was nothing between this weekend through August around me that I could make it to.

Princess_Nikki · May 27, 2016

Agreed on submitting something over nothing! Sounds like a better plan. If for some reason I cannot find a 10K to participate in by August 2 (deadline for Wine & Dine), should I just use my Princess Half times??

opusone · May 27, 2016

Princess_Nikki said:
Agreed on submitting something over nothing! Sounds like a better plan. If for some reason I cannot find a 10K to participate in by August 2 (deadline for Wine & Dine), should I just use my Princess Half times??

I would submit your best equivalent POT (using McMillan calculator) that occurred after the cutoff date (so, any race after Nov 1, 2014 for W&D).

dsk727 · May 27, 2016

I am wrestling with this now for DL POT. I was in a decent corral for Star Wars, but ran horribly slow because I was really sick. UGH So I am going back through all my old races to find the best time because I am hoping my non sick pace nets me a great corral for the DDD

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